Lorelei Weldon
3 min readJun 3, 2023

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I have no idea what you mean by that. All of her stories are filled with links to further information, and quotes from experts in a wide variety of scientific disciplines. I don't really see how anyone could provide more "evidence" in a brief article than she manages to routinely do. I'm not trying to be combative- I honestly don't understand your perception. How is anyone supposed to put several books worth of information into a brief article? The evidence is not A+B=C, it's the distillation of thousands of years of history, social science, primatology, art history, religion, etc. Just exactly how is one supposed to present that in a short survey piece?

I'm beginning to suspect that you must be an engineer or similar since you seem to look at things in a very binary way. One cannot simply state that Mexico is a definitely more patriarchal country than the US because it's not that simple. In some ways it is, and other ways it isn't. Boys and men end up in the Man Box due to the pressures of society to conform to those norms. Some of those pressures come from girls and women and the society as a whole. Naturally, that is something else that is also not a binary but even today we see lots of "policing" of these norms in a wide variety of ways. Boys who don't conform are often called fags and pussies, and otherwise harassed and shamed for not being "a real man." This isn't as bad as it used to be, but does still very much exist today. As I recall, many of the men in the equimundo study noted ways where they were resisting some of these pressures while also reporting that the pressures to conform do still exist. If you don't believe this is the case, it's because you haven't familiarized yourself with the 40+ years of research into it, much of it conducted by men.

Again, I don't mean this in a confrontational way, but your perception of the world isn't necessarily accurate when it is based on your personal experiences alone. That's what I like about Elle's writing, that she routinely presents a synthesis of research and academic study of a wide variety of topics in oder to make a case for any particular thesis. It provides a broad scope look at complex topics, which I suspect is part of what you don't like in that it is not nuts and bolts enough for you.

As Eisler notes on her website, one of the ways that domination systems perpetuate is through the stories that we tell (in movies, books, who we vote for, etc.) "Beliefs and stories that justify, idealize, and normalize domination and violence." In addition, "An authoritarian structure of ranking and hierarchies of domination in family, economics, and society, so children grow up in authoritarian, punitive, male-dominated families where they observe and experience inequity as the norm."

One could write an entire book about how social norms get created and maintained (and many have been written) so once again hoping for a two or three sentence answer is going to be perhaps unsatisfyingly reductive, but it's because there is no short and easy answer. The problem with the Man Box in particular is that it is still largely not considered anti-social behavior - it's considered desirable behavior even though it causes harm to lots of people, including but not limited to the men who adhere to those norms themself. This is the crux of the "fight" with feminism - that feminism rightly points out that these norms lead to marginalization and abuse of women, but also that they are alienating and disempowering to men - but many people, including some women, argue that this is just how men are and how they are supposed to be and that asking them to not adhere to these demonstrably anti-social and harmful norms is emasculating (rather than helpful to all of society). If we can't get the majority of the people in the culture to recognize that demanding that men act in these ways in order to prove that they are "real men" is a problem then we will continue to have the same situation that we have now, where Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson have a huge following by preaching a return to "traditional" masculinity as the answer - rather than recognizing it as a big part of the problem, particularly for men.

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Lorelei Weldon
Lorelei Weldon

Written by Lorelei Weldon

Student of human nature and advocate for a safer, saner, more love-infused world. If I read it, there’s a good chance I’ll leave a comment.

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